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thefieldsofelysium
Shop_seller_2 thefieldsofelysium is a Chictopia seller who has been hand-picked by our editors to sell merchandise on our website.

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thefieldsofe...
posts: 170

Watchmen discussion — both the movie and the graphic novel!

(Because sometimes fashion takes a back seat. Because poorandweird and I are geeks. And because Alan Moore – along with his giant beard – kicks so much ass.)

So, without further ado, a few thoughts & questions…

1. movie!Veidt or novel!Veidt?

I feel more sympathetic to movie!Veidt, since he carries out his masterplan with more of a it’s-a-necessary-evil attitude than an egotistical I-solved-the-world’s-biggest-crisis! attitude. (Not to say that movie!Veidt isn’t egotistical…because he is. Arrogant…patronizing…handsome…bastard. Condescension shouldn’t be so hot.) However, I do like the fact that novel!Veidt elucidates more on his personal philosophy and – what I believe to be genuine – optimism regarding the human will and spirit. As a Classics major, I completely understand his admiration for Alexander the Great. (He probably admires Pelopidas, as well, who is one of my favorite Greek historical figures. Now that I think about it, Pelopidas and Ozymandias are rather similar in character…)

2. movie!Laurie or novel!Laurie?

I think this one’s no contest.

3. Most intelligent – or insert other adjective(s) – Crimebuster? (I’d include the Minutemen, but I don’t think enough information on them has been given to us…I wish that weren’t the case!)

The Comedian, hands down. He’s perhaps not intelligent the way Ozymandias is considered intelligent (although both are – by normal standards – psychopathic in the super-sane sort of way). But I think he does possess the greatest understanding of the potentialities and failings of human nature, and the way the world works (from a human perspective). However, he doesn’t attempt to deliberately separate or distance himself from the rest of mankind as a result, in a me-versus-them way — the way Veidt does (well, he’s more me-above-them, but the Comedian isn’t that delusional). He chooses to revel in his awareness and be “deliberately amoral” (as Manhattan put it), and I find that very compelling, for some reason. The U.S. government thinks that the Comedian is their operative, but in reality he is no-one’s operative. He binds himself to nothing, which I believe is a big part of what makes him and Ozymandias so curiously alike. (They’d be the best of friends, if they didn’t hate each others’ guts so much. [Sigh])

4. Nite Owl II: “We have to compromise…” Rorschach: “No, not even in the face of Armageddon.”

In context of relevance to daily life, I can’t say that I agree with Rorschach’s philosophy, which is incredibly black and white [insert not-so-subtle mask reference]. Ideally, it’s a virtue to never compromise when it comes to your values and principles, but it’s a generally unrealistic standard. I prefer going on a case-by-case basis, because – really – it depends on circumstance. (I try not to be hypocritical, though.)

5. Does Dr. Manhattan have a responsibility to mankind, given the magnitude of his accidental powers?

Hrmm. This is perhaps the toughest question of all, which is why I don’t have a clear-cut answer. On the one hand, he no longer has any motive, empathy, or understanding (given that he now views the world – and essentially lives – on a completely different plane of existence). On the other, what kind of being would he be if he just stood by while the world drove itself into destruction? (I’m tempted to say ‘God,’ but as Manhattan said himself, “I don’t think there is a god, Janey. If there is, I’m not him.”)

6. And the final, giant question: which would you take your chances on, destruction of half of New York City by teleported vaginal squid OR impending nuclear warfare?

At the risk of sounding like I completely lack empathy for the human race (I guess Obama won’t be choosing me to be the replacement Supreme Court judge…), I lean toward obliteration of half of NYC. I’m playing solely by the numbers game — certain 4 million deaths versus potential 100+ million deaths. (Er, let’s pretend I factored in probability calculations, too.) Of course, if I were living in the half of NYC that was to be blown to smithereens….then I’d probably change my tune. Either that or hide out in a self-made bomb shelter until the nuclear holocaust is over, assuming – of course – that there would be one. (Er, peace could still be possible, if Manhattan hadn’t absconded to Mars…? But that would’ve been contingent on Veidt not messing with his future-vision and all that…ah, never mind.)

[Addendum: I also just finished reading Moore’s The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Vol. 1, and while it doesn’t top Watchmen – in my opinion – it is nevertheless superb and chock full of snarky fun.]

THOUGHTS?

posted over 5 years ago
poorandweird
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poorandweird
posts: 495

haha, you rule for starting this thread.

posted over 5 years ago
 
thefieldsofelysium
Shop_seller_2 thefieldsofelysium is a Chictopia seller who has been hand-picked by our editors to sell merchandise on our website.

Chictopia sellers carry fashion forward products and ensure great customer experience. Click here if you are interested in selling your merchandise on Chictopia.
thefieldsofe...
posts: 170

Also, iconic film references within Watchmen (the movie):

- Nixon’s war room: modeled after the one in Kubrick’s Dr. Strangelove
- Vietnam helicopter attack with “Ride of the Valkyries” playing in the background: direct reference to Coppola’s Apocalypse Now
- From this site, it seems that Scorsese’s Taxi Driver and Roeg’s The Man Who Fell to Earth were referenced, as well.

Very short list so far…I’m sure I haven’t caught them all, so feel free to add on.

posted over 5 years ago
 
poorandweird
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poorandweird
posts: 495

^^ That’s pretty cool!

I still hated the soundtrack _

posted over 5 years ago
 
poorandweird
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poorandweird
posts: 495

http://iat.ubalt.edu/moulthrop/hypertexts/wm/readings/lateral/

Apparently you can read Watchmen “laterally”… as in, across from the top right corner of one page straight to the top left corner of the next ? It makes me wonder if it’s coincidental or if they deliberately laid it out like that. I mean, with all the weird symmetry throughout the novel …

posted over 5 years ago
 
thefieldsofelysium
Shop_seller_2 thefieldsofelysium is a Chictopia seller who has been hand-picked by our editors to sell merchandise on our website.

Chictopia sellers carry fashion forward products and ensure great customer experience. Click here if you are interested in selling your merchandise on Chictopia.
thefieldsofe...
posts: 170

^ That is really fascinating. (I’m about halfway done with reading the analysis.) Certainly, you can’t read the novel laterally in its entirety…but the multiple instances of panel symmetry definitely point to something more than coincidence. I’ll have to keep this in mind when I read Watchmen, again — new perspective!

Addendum: The remark about “total devastation” drifts across from the speech of a general (looking suspiciously like George C. Scott’s Buck Turgidson in Doctor Strangelove ) who assures Nixon that U.S. forces can wipe out half the Soviet missiles on the ground.

More Dr. Strangelove references! :D

Addendum 2: I suppose people on this site wouldn’t be too partial to discussing The Dark Knight, either…? I had moderately lengthy discussions on the ferry dilemma and game theory with irides and another friend of mine some time ago, but no-one else (at least, in real life) ever wanted to go in depth. :( (I’m not even sure why I continue to pursue this sort of thing on such an irrelevant website.)

posted over 5 years ago
 
twinkl
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twinkl
posts: 125

Awe, I enjoy reading your thoughts on the subject. I for one would have so much more to say in person, but writing it out just takes a bit more thought than I can manage thoughtfully, if that makes any sense. I like organic, meandering conversations…

But I haven’t read The Dark Knight the graphic novel so yeah, that would be over my head.

posted over 5 years ago
 
goin
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goin
posts: 54

poorandweird: i find it hard to find anyone that liked the soundtrack. i didn’t mind it, but that’s mainly because of the use of Unforgettable during the Comedian’s murder (i’m a sucker!) and the use of All Along the Watch Tower (because that song is epic and any movie can benefit from it’s use). i agree on your thoughts about Veidt- i think that the movie faltered in that it didn’t provide enough information and depth to such an important character.

in terms of the Dark Knight, i also have not read the graphic novel. i have a friend who’s a huge Batman fan (a LEGITIMATE fan, mainly comics) and it kind of spoils Wayne for me. if we’re on the subject of comics though… how about the Avengers movie coming out in a few years? anyone hear about that (or care for that matter)?

posted over 5 years ago
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